'Legend' is a term which I think can often be over-used. However, when discussing the history of rock, the term 'legend' is barely adequate to describe the contribution of one Ronnie James Dio. Throughout his more than thirty years in the business, Ronnie has been involved with some of the most momentous milestones in the history of rock: from Rainbow's seminal 'Rising', through Black Sabbath's masterpiece 'Heaven and Hell' to 'Holy Diver', the debut album from Dio, the band.

Ronnie James Dio is the reason I am involved in the rock music business today, having been awe-struck by the spellbinding brilliance of 'Rising' back when I was fifteen years old. Over the past twenty odd years I have followed his career closely, but from 'Lock Up the Wolves' onwards, I found myself losing interest in the musical changes he had created. But thankfully 'Killing the Dragon' sees Dio returning to the style that made him one of the most lauded song-writers and singers on the scene, and after twelve years it was great to finally get the chance to talk to the man again.

Ronnie's original family name is Padovana, and was changed long ago for the much more theatrical sounding name he bears today. As Ronnie explains...

"Padovana is of Italian extraction. The name was a bit long and hard to pronounce and I felt if I was going to carry on in this business and try to make something of myself, I should have a name that's a ittle bit easier to deal with. I saw the name in a book...it was the name of a Mafia leader. At least he was Italian though probably not a very nice person. I thought 'Yeah, that'll do,' and not until years later did I realise, when someone told me when I was with Sabbath, that it meant 'God'. I certainly didn't take the name because of that...I haven't THAT much of an ego!"

Before Ronnie joined Rainbow, the band that made his name, he was singing in Elf. Having bought a few Elf albums, I was surprised at their musical style, which I would describe as almost gospel. However, since Rainbow, most of Dio's music has been in a similar style, so I wondered how much influnce Blackmore had in shaping Ronnie's musical direction, or was it Dio who influenced Ritchie during that period of Ritchie?

"Deep Purple were my favourite band and I was lucky enough to tour with them when I was in Elf. We did about 7 or 8 world tours with Purple and I got to know them very well. But the most important thing for me was to see Ritchie play, and the band play, because I thought they were just magnificent. Before that, what I think shaped Elf was that the piano was one of the basic instruments in the band, as opposed to guitar. The first Elf album was guitar, the second mainly piano and I think that tends to push you towards a certain kind of musical image, and in this case we were a lot more 'honky tonk', but honky-tonk with the influence of Sam Cook and Otis Reading on me as a vocalist, so you have a kind of cross-over thing. I guess some of it could be described as 'gospel'. I was really influenced by the gothic style of music that Purple played and so when I joined up with Ritchie I'd always wanted to do that anyway. I think in Ritchie's case and my case, we influenced each other quite a bit. I brought to him what I had in Elf, some of my more R&B attitudes with my love of classical music, and Ritchie's love of classical music and his gothic approach to it. That's what really made Rainbow what it was, between Ritchie and myself anyway."

Has there been any truth in all these rumours over the past few years about an imminent Rainbow reunion?

"Well there's always that rumour. It's become part of pop culture now - 'Will there be a Rainbow reunion? Will Ritchie and Ronnie get back together and do something?' And that's wonderful when you stop and think that it's endured for all these years, from 1976 until now....over twenty-five years. It's really amazing to me that there's still that much interest, and it's probably still amazing to me that there was so much acceptance [of 'Rising']. I mean, I thought it was an excellent album, but that it just suddenly went out of the box like it did...whoah, and it's lasted this long. It's just really, really amazing to me. And so I've always said, if there was any brief chance for a reunion of Rainbow, if it was done properly of course, then I would do it, because I think the fans deserve it. They've waited all these years for it and keep hopong, so if it could come about then I wouldn't say no to it, but once again, it would have to be absolutely the right situation."

Have you actually spoken to Ritchie since leaving Rainbow?

"Not personally I haven't. The last communication we had was when we were both on the road, about four or five years ago. Ritchie was travelling behind us with Blackmore's Night and I got a telegram at the hotel and he said 'I haven't talked to you in a while - good luck. Maybe on the road we can cross paths sometime. Good luck on tour, Ritchie.' So I sent him one back 'Thanks, be nice to see you again, blah, blah blah....' And that was it. That was our last communication. But it's not a matter of....if I saw Ritchie he wouldn't run away and we wouldn't hit each other because we've never treated each other that way. I've always had nothing but the utmost respect for Ritchie. If there's anything that angers me about Ritchie it's that I've missed his rock and roll guitar playing for such a long time. But other than that, if it were possible within the time frame of what Dio is doing and what Ritchie is doing, and was brief enough so our current careers wouldn't stop, then I'd think about it, but it's not something I think is going to happen."

When I last spoke to you in 1990, the people in the business you wanted to write with were the Sabbath guys again. Since then, you recorded 'Dehumaniser', which to be honest, was NOT the classic Sabbath sound many were expecting. What was the story behind that, and are those bridges now well and truly burnt?

"It was deliberate to make it that way. The thing we didn't want to try and do was write another 'Heaven and Hell'. I think that would have been counter-productive and it would have been impossible. Once you write something that good, you just can't go back in and churn another one out. I mean, that was all spontaneous and magical. We wanted to write an album that was a little more forward looking, so it became a lot more technically inspired. Not from a recording standpoint, but certainly from my observational standpoint. There was at that time... 'No, no, don't use those words. You've used those words before. No, no, don't do that,' and I was like 'Oh, okay, if that's what you want, fine.' So that's what we got. I personally think it's a great album, I think it's one of the best albums I've ever been associated with. I really like it a lot and I think there's some great songs on it. It was a tortured project, and that makes it even more special to me, I think. As far as bridges being burned, I will certainly never do anything with the band Black Sabbath again, whether there's anything in the offing later on down the road with Tony perhaps, I'll never put that one aside because I enjoyed working with Tony. I thought we wrote good things and if we didn't have anyone else telling us what to do, like it was with 'Heaven and Hell', maybe we would be better off. But I never say no to that, just like I'd never say no to working with Ritchie again. Again, I think that those are doors that one shouldn't close, especially if you don't have a problem with those people - and contrary to popular belief I don't have a problem with Tony. I've always liked Tony, I know what he's all about and I know what he's been through. He was always fun to work with so I'd definitely do something with Tony if all the cards fell into place, but that's a far reach I think. But with Sabbath, no."

Okay, let's move onto the new album. Being a massive fan of the old Dio sound, I was worried the new album title, 'Killing the Dragon', was going to be symbolic - finally putting to death the image and sound of classic period Ronnie James Dio. Thankfully that isn't the case, as the album sees a return to the full blown sound of those early Dio albums. So what was the thought process behind the title?

"It just turned out to be one of the tracks on the album. A lot of times that's how we'll do it, a la 'Holy Diver' and 'Last in Line'. Sometimes we won't, but in this particular case it just seemed a better title than all of the rest that were on the CD, and it seemed to mirror my thought at the time, because 'Killing the Dragon' is really just a metaphor for the injustices that are heaped upon people and what they usually do about it, which is revolt somehow. So the song 'Killing the Dragon', the dragon initially is meant to be a symbol of our fears, our primal fears perhaps. In folklore, the dragon would steal away the children of a village and eat them - another symbol of injustice - and so the people would revolt and go out to hunt and kill the dragon. The next part of the song is again historical, the Lord of the manor who is the most horrible person on Earth... such a cruel oppressor that he gives ice to the cold to be even more cruel. And so the people revolt against him. The third verse is about things to come, and things that are actually here already, and that's the electronic world, especially the computer world. There a line in there that says 'Small Gods with electrical hearts' and it's time to be killing the dragon again. You know, we shouldn't allow technology to get so far ahead of our humanity. So the whole song is meant to signify the fight of the common man against injustices, and so it seemed, certainly in this time we live in, probably a good representation of how I felt at the time."

So why the change back now, to what I would call the classic sound?

"Well I wanted to do the last album, 'Magica', for a purpose. It was a lot more broad undertaking by all of us, especially by me. I wanted it to go right back to the other thing which Dio has been known for, and that's the fantasty attitude of it all. And with 'Magica' it included a story as well as the songs that fleshed out the story, and it was a lot broader in scope and conceptual, and I wanted to do that album because I thought at that point, that's what Dio fans wanted to hear... more melodic things and things heavier and slower. And then I planned after 'Magica' to be doing this album we're doing now. I wanted this one to revert back to a song-based album that had ten songs that don't have to have a connection. I wasn't looking for any thread or connection throughout this project, but when you do things that are so personal some of yourself is always there, so perhaps reflecting my feelings at the time this album does have a thread through it, but it wasn't meant to be that way. It was meant to be a faster album, with faster tempo songs, not as many long pieces that really need to be listened to for absorption....I really wanted it to be this way. I think it makes it much more of a classical Dio album because it really is song based, much the way that the early Dio albums were."

You said after 'Magica' that you'd do a straight-forward rock record, which this obviously is. You also said that after this record you were thinking of going on and doing 'Magica' parts 2 and 3. Is that still the plan?

"Yes, it is, absolutely. I wanted to do it this way for a long time, and I decided once we were going to attack 'Magica' that that would be the case. But just because 'Magica' is what it was certainly doesn't mean that 2 and 3 [will sound the same] because I now have the latitude of 2 and 3 because they'll both be on the same album. Part 2 could be much like 'Killing the Dragon' is, more song orientated. Of course there would be some connection but not quite so bombastic. Part 3 leads you to perhaps a different conclusion which is more like 'Magica' part 1, or a combination of parts 1 and 2. Again it all been well planned and that is what I want to do, and especially with the new guitar player Doug Aldritch, who is just so capable. It's going to make 'Magica' 2 and 3 a lot easier than I had ever envisioned."

Looking at the standard Dio live set, it's invariably set around the classics: a few from Rainbow and Sabbath, and lots from the first three Dio albums, but very few from the latter albums, apart from when 'Magica' was played in it's entirety. Isn't this an acknowledgment that the music you were writing since 'Lock Up the Wolves' wasn't standing the test of time, or becoming fan favourites?

"I think that's very, very true. Certainly they didn't become fan favourites. Dyed in the wool Dio fans will always like whatever is presented to them, because they know at least we try to do it with class and a sound and attitude they have always liked. So those people are always going to say to you 'How come you don't do anything from 'Lock Up the Wolves' or 'Angry Machines?' In truth, if we were forced to do one thing from it and it was just such a clamour by the public, then we would do it, a la 'Rainbow in the Dark' which was never one of my favourite songs, but it was just accepted so well, so it's something we did and will now usually always do. But the same applies to those other songs on the albums you suggested - they just weren't happy times, I don't think they were productive musical times - we were going through a lot of changes personally during those moments. And I think when you do an unhappy album, at least from my own perspective, you just remember those songs as things you don't want to do. And again I think because we were searching and struggling with different people and ourselves as to 'What do we do next?', I think those things just didn't come out happy and good, so I don't even look to do them, although we did pull something from 'Dream Evil' - we did 'Sunset Superman', but that's one of the few we've touched upon. So I guess the answer to your question is we don't do them because we don't like them either."

Having mentioned 'Dream Evil', I reminded Ronnie of the conversation we had 12 years ago, when I asked him what he'd learned from previous albums that had helped shape 'Lock Up the Wolves'. His answer had been that he realised the collaboration between himself and Craig Goldie was totally the wrong one, that 'Dream Evil' had been written between the two of them, and wrongfully so. Of course, Craig came back onto the scene for 'Magica' and had quite a few writing credits on that album. So what, I wondered, had changed in the relationship in the intervening decade?

"Well I think that 'Magica' worked because of a lot of things. When Craig and I first started working together, I think he was at a real loss for a lot of musical contribution. Craig was never really the kind of player who could 'on the fly' just play things... it was usually 'I'll go home and come back with something tomorrow.' That's okay, but occasionally you have to squeeze out what's inside of you at the moment - that's what we are, we're a live band. So that became difficult within 'Dream Evil', plus the fact that no-one else in the band liked Craig very much. It was not a problem for me but I didn't realise until Craig was gone that he wasn't very well liked, for whatever reasons they may have been. All those things together, at that time, just made it a really unproductive situation, certainly less productive than when we had done 'Holy Diver', 'Last in Line' and 'Sacred Heart'. Coming full circle, and Craig coming back into the 'Magica' situation... I had already written about half of the album anyway, or at least four of the tracks anyway, and riffs written for probably three more. So right away Craig was set up in an lot easier pattern... I knew what I wanted do and where I wanted to go. I didn't have to rely quite so heavily for a guitar player to give me riffs and ideas because it was already there. And the album being what it was... slower, with a lot more time for Craig to deal with what he had to deal with. Musically, he didn't have to really think in brilliant speed most of the time, so it just made a difference that it was all laid out on the table for Craig, and believe me, I'm not saying that Craig just happened to pass by when we did 'Magica' because it was a great collaboration between the two of us - he was wonderful, but again it was there for him. So once again you have the situation, and it's not a personal one with me, but a situation where the guitar player was being given what to do and not having to create it himself. Luckily with 'Dream Evil' we had other writers, especially Jimmy and me, which made it easier for Craig. So all the way down the line, I think Craig's downfall between him and myself was purely a musical one in that it was always my job to pull things from him and I wasn't used to working that way. I didn't have to pull anything from Viv... he just had to be shown the way a little bit occasionally, but never had to pull anything from him, with his enormous talent. Of course, Tony [Iommi] I never had to pull anything, nor Ritchie [Blackmore]. So I got used to working with people whom I expected to be on top of it as much as I was, and when I found that that didn't happen, not only the first time but on the beginning of 'Killing the Dragon', then all those bad habit rose up again and you realise that leopards don't change their spots, tigers don't change their stripes. But we did try all the way through, as much as we could until it became impossible. And that was not a musical thing, that was a personal thing because Craig took on so much responsibility - he got married shortly after we returned from our first tour with him, inherited two pre-teens with the marriage and then his wife was pregnant and they had a baby about three months ago, and his focus was on that, and not on what we were doing in any way, shape or form. So that made this album, until we replaced Craig, absolutely miserable to do. We couldn't wait to get it over, and Jimmy and I had to do most of the work. That's okay at the end of the day, but how much easier it would have been had we had that other great tool - the guitar player who could give to you, or at least cared. So we had to make a change for ourselves, and it was just the best thing that ever happened."

So is Doug Aldritch the kind of player that satisfies your demands?

"Oh yeah... I tell you, it's absolutely phenomenal. He's just stunning, he really is. I've played with some great guitar players in my life. I've been a very fortunate person, not only to play with them but to learn from them and see how they approached everything. And when Doug came in - and we had wanted Doug in this band when Craig left the first time, and that didn't pan out, and we knew how good he was then. But to find out how good he is now and be able to work with him was really amazing, especially for a guy who had to come in and play the backing tracks of 8 songs that he had no part of and treat them the way he did, his own way but the Dio way, because he knew what he was getting into. And just to hear his solos, and everything he does, and his attitude, has just been absolutely unbelievable and he just fits this band so well. We wrote 'Along Comes a Spider' and 'Scream' together - myself, Jimmy and Doug. Those were the last two songs we wrote, and we knocked them out in the studio in about five days, and I think they are two of the best songs on the album."

Dio, the band, are expected by the fans and media to have a certain sound musically, and perhaps it is a burden to be defined within such narrow musical parameters. If Ronnie James Dio was ever to record a solo album, based strictly on his own personal tastes, what kind of music could we expect?

"Well once again, I think if I had the latitude to just be able to do that without being examined, and by that I mean that what you do that is not what you've always done is always going to get much more closely examined and compared. I think that there's almost nothing that I can't do vocally even though I have narrowed myself down - I just have an innate ability to be able to do that and always have, because I like all kinds of music. But I think when you are dealing with a persona that you have created for such a long time, I think that the feeling of fear to do something like that is just too overwhelming for me to do it. If I did, and I've never given it any thought... I've never wanted to be a solo artist, but if I did I would play everything myself. I would play every instrument and it would be very bad, and the only god thing on it would be the singing probably. Because I think if you're going to do a solo album then who am I doing it with? It makes no sense to bring in every Tom, Dick and Harry to play.... 'Oh, I can get Neal Schon to play guitar. Hey Ritchie, wanna play a solo?' I mean, that's not a solo album to me. It might be for others. Perhaps it's my perspective on what a solo album is. But if it was to be a solo album for me, it would be really dark and doomy as Hell, it really would."

There was talk of another charity record, this time for the Children of the night organisation which you support so strongly. Is that still happening?

"Well what was going to happen was, there's a song on this album called 'Throw Away Children'. That is the track which Craig and I wrote just after we did 'Magica' for the charity. That was the song that was going to have all the guitar solos on it, and all the different singers...but what is kinda funny to me, and it's a sad subject but it's funny anyway...they thought the song was too depressing. My answer was 'Well my God, I thought the subject was pretty damn depressing too!' You know, children who run away from home and consider themselves to be throw away children - I'm speaking for them, this is what they call themselves... and it was too depressing? So I love the song, and I wanted it to be done... I certainly wanted to do it myself, so I'm glad it happened that way so we could just do it ourselves. So in the next week or so we'll write the song for the charity which will be a bit more 'up'. Well, certainly up in tempo. I don't know how you can say 'La la la la la, let's dance around the maypole' when you're dealing with a subject like this... 'Hey, we're all going to die, yayyyyy!!' It just stuns me. I think it's a great song, I really do, and it was so heartfelt by me in writing the song, it really meant a lot to me. I just don't understand how you could write something happy sounding...."

So final question. What continues to inspire Ronnie James Dio today, and keeps him going?

"Well I think a lot of it, you get into the routine of your job... it becomes your job. I mean, this is what you do year after year. You do an album, you tour with it. You speak to the press, you do the same thing year after year. So you get into your 'work zone' and if you're good at it and want to continue to improve, then that makes it not a humdrum job. I'm just so lucky that I have a job that I love, and I have a job that I think I'm good at, and a job that allows me to do the one thing I've always wanted to do, and that's meet people everywhere and just find out what it's all about. So my inspiration really is the joy of the music and the joy of playing it live, that's what makes all the sense on Earth to me. Without being able to sing live.... God, I don't know what I would do. Just to want to continue to perform inspires me and go everywhere and see places I haven't seen before and absorb what people have to give to me. I think my inspiration has always been people more than anything."