Fourteen years is a hell of a long time for any band not to play a particular country, and such is the case with long time hard rock icons Dokken. Despite the fact the band have a staunch hardcore following Don Dokken was worried about their first UK tour in a long, long time. In fact I hardly had time to introduce myself before Don started telling it like it is…

"We're with a new record company now. CMC were bought by Sanctuary and to be honest I don't think they know who we are. In fact they are surprised we're selling out the venues every night…to be honest so are we. I mean it could have been 50 people every night."

How did London go last night?

"Great, really cool, although the journalists complained we didn't play long enough. I said don't blame me, blame the club. I guess the clubs in London must have curfew laws for underage or something. We were on stage, we were happy, doing a good show and wanted to play some more but the club owner said no way, it's 10.30 get out: we have the fans' money, you've been paid and it's going to take an hour to hose down the vomit in the toilets, so fuck off. Go figure!"

So on to the new album 'Long Way Home'. I'm sure you get it from fans all around the world that this isn't Dokken. You don't sound the same, look the same…anything , and the old chestnut 'I preferred Dokken when they were Dokken.'

"All the time. They want you to do the same thing over and over again, always look the same and sound the same. My answer is go tell the Beatles. Everybody moaned when 'Revolver' came out because it wasn't 'Help'. Then when they liked 'Revolver' they moaned again because 'Sgt. Pepper' didn't sound the same as 'Revolver' and on and on."

Gene Simmons famously said that Kiss was formed to be a heavy metal Beatles. Would it be fair to say that Don Dokken was inspired to pick up a guitar by the Beatles?

"Yep, no question. In America right now we're doing a lot of press for the new album and people are picking up on the Beatles influence. Anyway, it's a lot better than Kiss influence isn't it?"

So you think they should call it a day too?

"They do, every year. This must be their sixteenth farewell tour!"

Just to back track a little, when Dokken Mk1 broke after the problems with George you all had made millions, toured the world, played stadiums…basically done it all. Did it ever cross your mind about calling it quits?

"In 1989 we were playing stadiums with The Scorpions, with Metallica opening for us. I really thought that the next tour we did would have been our own stadium headline tour… okay , this is it guys, everything we have worked for, and then the band got into drugs. George got violent due to the steroids, and complaining 'I hate your voice, it's the worst.' I thought what a shame we got that far for it all to implode. It was really over as Dokken. I did the Don Dokken solo record after that. Actually after Dokken broke up I wanted to change members and keep going but the band sued me and took my name away. I couldn't use the name Dokken and I wasn't happy using Don Dokken but it was a good record . Who could have known that this Nirvana thing would spell the end for true rock and roll, and all of a sudden by 1991 it was all Nirvana, AIC, Soundgarden…all of whom were good bands but it spelled the end for bands like us. When I released the solo record I made two videos and one of them was the number 1 MTV video for about two weeks. Great, Geffen were happy, I was happy… anyway, two weeks later we went from #1 to zero, zilch, nowhere, and Nirvana were #1 and it was all over for bands like us inside a month. No slow decline, just bang ..it's over inside a few short weeks."

The mid 90's was a difficult period for Dokken with the 'Dysfunctional' and 'Shadowlife' records. Looking back do you have any regrets about either of those two records?

"'Dysfunctional' no. That was my second solo record. I wrote it and produced it myself in my own studio. I did it by myself and at the last minute Columbia said they, plus Mick and Jeff wanted George back in the band. I said it was a mistake because I knew we couldn't get along. We talked to George and he gave us the impression that he could handle things. You know, we're a good band and we make good music and we're all older and wiser ...I liked Dysfunctional' but when the band pushed me out of the studio to do 'Shadowlife' I have a lot of regrets. It's awful."

I remember looking at the cover and wondering why the Dokken logo wasn't on there?

"That's right. You're the only guy in the damn business that worked that one out. I own the logo. When the record company looked to use the logo I told them I wouldn't put my name on it because it wasn't a Dokken record. It was a George Lynch and Jeff Pilson album with Don Dokken singing on it. I had nothing to do with it. I mean I wrote the lyrics and melodies but at the time I had an eight year old child who was dying of leukemia so I really didn't really care about the record all that much. I was in the hospital with her every day so I told the band write the songs and I'll put my Dokken touch on it. So when I heard it I said oh no, what am I going to do with this? I wrote the lyrics but it was a dark record. I felt it was a cheap attempt to be Tool, STP or one of those bands. I mean they are great bands but it's not what we do."

I thought it was a cheap shot at trying to be trendy?

"It was!"

And in the process alienating a lot of your older fans

"Yep, fans who like that music will like Tool, but not Dokken's version of Tool. And vice versa, people saw it for what it was. It was stupid and it was cheap and dishonest. With me I just pick up my guitar and write whatever comes out. At least it's honest."

If you sit down to write, do you have to put yourself in a Dokken frame of mind?

"No, absolutely not. I write what I feel. That's why some stuff sounds Beatles like. I don't think there are any songs out there to be written, you sort of plug into them. You can pick up a newspaper and find the inspiration to write. I don't sit down and go 'Well this one has to have the typical Dokken harmony, exactly eight bars, two minutes in a solo'....Jeff writes like that. It is a bad thing though because I'll write two thirds of a song and stop. I say God puts me on hold and doesn't call me back for about two months. I wish I could call him...'Hey, I have two lines of lyrics to finish. Can you help me out?'"

You touched briefly on George's substance abuse. By the time the band fell apart in 1989 how much of a part did alcohol and drug abuse play in the band's demise?

"About half."

Everybody?

"I don't do drugs. It was out of control though. Everybody was doing it. In fact it got so bad they were Fed Ex-ing it out to the tour. I said that's a Federal offence but they didn't care. The crew were on it, the band...everybody. Then they wouldn't sleep for days so they took something else to take the edge off the drugs so they could sleep. The problem I had was I was in my bunk reading a book while they were at the back of the bus doing cocaine, talking about how they could get rid of the singer. The enemy... I think the biggest downfall with Dokken was ego. You had a bass player who wanted to be the singer. Jeff always wanted to be the singer. I said well, you have a problem there because I'm the singer. I didn't wake up every morning and say ...damn I want to play bass That was a bit of an issue that festered over 15 years. George was always frustrated that he couldn't make it on his own, that annoyed him. Of the ten hits we're most known for, eight were written by me so why is it always Don's songs end up on radio as hits. I said it wasn't my fault, it was the record company's decision. However if you can write good songs, well great. It didn't matter to us really, this wasn't a Bon Jovi thing where he makes all the money and the drummer gets nothing. We always split everything four ways so it didn't matter who wrote the hits, just write one. I'm trying, but you guys are busy at the party in the Playboy mansion!"

You seem to be able to look back on everything with a candid sense of humour?

"Yes, why not? It's all in the past. We can't change anything about it now. Some rock stars I know, and I know a few because I'm in the loop, still say remember '86 or '87 and I go yeah, what about it? I say what are you doing now, not then, what are you doing musically now? Have you changed anything, do you approach things differently? Look to the future, only visit the past to reflect and make sure you learn from it."

So does that mean if you saw George walking down the street tomorrow you would stop and chat with him?

"I would cross the road to avoid him. Definitely. I personally am not afraid of him, it's more Mick. Last month we played the House of Blues at Anaheim and the promoter said the opening band was going to have George jam a song with them. I said fine but I don't want to see him, talk to him, any confrontations, sucker punches thrown at me and they said 'Whoa, that could be a problem.' The promoter finally decided it would be a lot of trouble and he ended up asking him not to come. Mick had a fit when he heard. George showed up at Mick's house in Arizona and pulled a .45 on him and threatened to shoot him in the head a while back so Mick wasn't eager to see him either."

George moved on with a recent reincarnation of Lynch Mob. However it wasn't anything like the classic Lynch Mob material, it was some type of rap/rock record. He then got original singer Oni Logan back in the fold and suddenly he was gone again.

"Yep, Oni went out on tour with George doing the traditional Lynch Mob thing and it didn't go over very well. Then all of a sudden Oni quit, he couldn't take it. The problems. I know the bass player, he told me George was playing really loud, you couldn't hear the vocals. Oni lost his voice every night because of it. I said Oni, I know all about it, I've been there. So now George is doing Lynch Mob with Jeff which should be interesting."

So Jeff gets to fulfil his lifelong ambition then?

"Yes he does. He's already done two albums this year. Jeff has also done a rap album. His favourite band are Radiohead...that will give you an idea."

Some people have stated Radiohead are the new Pink Floyd

"What? Nah, no way. I don't get it...monotone singing and incredibly boring videos. Pink Floyd had passion and great arrangements, but what the hell would I know? I guess I'm stupid because they're selling millions of records..."

So to get back to Dokken, you get Reb Beach in the band. Great player, nice guy... you record 'Erase the Slate', 'Live from the Sun' and then... problems. From reading the various bits and pieces on both your web sites there seemed to be a lack of communication; he didn't know if he was in or out and you didn't know what he wanted to do.

"I wanted Reb in the band, period. Winger is his band - he's been doing it since he was seventeen. Kip is his best friend and to be honest nobody thought they would get back together. Kip however decided to release this greatest hits with two new songs. Reb said to me 'I love playing with Dokken, it's the best gig in the world for a guitar player.' I said let's do an album. Suddenly the record company gave both Jeff and Reb solo deals, and I said to the record company 'You're going to break my band up because next thing you know these guys will have fantasies about going solo.' Reb wanted to do a solo record and Jeff wanted to do his. They did them both which took about a year and then Reb said to me I want to tour with you but I don't want to do another record with you. He said I'd tour with you but I can't stand being in the studio with you, you're too difficult to work with as a producer. I said 'I know, you're right.' I drove him crazy on the 'Erase the Slate' album. I tortured the poor guy. I said 'You're right, I pushed you very hard but you can ask your fans and they'll tell you it was worth it. I did get the best out of you on those solos.' Some of his solos were too Winger-ish and I wanted him to stretch out and do it differently. He can do it all: Yngwie, Brad Gillis, Eddie Van Halen. I said to him that he should try incorporate everything but try make it sound like Reb Beach, not Reb Beach playing George Lynch. I said his only problem was he sounded like a combination of four or five guitarists and not having an identity all of his own, but I thought we accomplished that on 'Erase the Slate'."

Most people thought 'Erase...' was the best Dokken album of the 90's. How did it fare out sales wise?

"Not great really. 'Dysfunctional' did about 250,000, 'Erase...' sold 50,000. Here's what happened though. When George came back into the band for 'Dysfunctional' he wanted to redo all the guitars. I said well the rhythms are really good, why don't you just re do the solos. I mean he only had a week to learn the entire record but he insisted in redoing everything. I didn't think he knew or cared much about the music, it was just about money. We were paying him a lot of money to do the record and Columbia were paying him $20,000 to do it. I thought it was a mistake because he didn't put his heart and soul into it. He turned up, he played on it, but it was kind of boring really, he didn't bust his ass on it. Then 'Shadowlife', wow that killed off a lot of fans. When people heard it they said that's it...it's over. They're trying to sound like every other band and not what they should sound like and they were right to an extent. Then I got Reb and did damage control. Let's just do a traditional Dokken album, straight out of the 80's: big guitars, lots of melody , good solid hard rock, which we did and it was good. I didn't want to do another 'Erase...' on this record. I thought we should move forward, if it's pop, rock, dance, grunge who cares, as long as it's honest. 'Long Way Home' is that product. But I had spoken with Reb and he told me he didn't want to do another record with me, he thought I was too hard a taskmaster. You know Reb. I said 'You want to tour but you don't want to record it? I think that's a little strange don't you? I mean the guy who records it should tour it shouldn't he?' Reb said 'We'll talk about it,' then he went 'Okay, we'll do it' and as soon as he did Jeff left the group."

Jeff's leaving was subject to an enormous amount of speculation? Has Mick been forgiven?

"No, not yet. But to be honest I don't think that was the main reason, but I guess Mick sleeping with his wife could be problematic. It would be a problem with me too - I would have shot the son of a bitch. If the drummer is fucking the bass player's wife it's not conducive to everybody being the best of friends. In defence of Mick I said to Jeff that he should be pissed off with his wife. I watched it go down, she was pressuring Mick, she hit on George, Mick, me.... everybody. She was a slut. Before he got married Jeff asked me if I liked his fiancée and I said no, I don't! I said I think she will be the undoing of you. I said she will make some of your old girlfriends look like nuns."

I remember Mick making a comment along the lines of as far as he was aware it was over between Jeff and his wife anyway.

"Yes it was. She told Mick she had left Jeff, and Mick, not being the brightest guy in the world, thought yeah, she looks good, I'll fuck her. She came up to live with Mick and his girl to get away from everything for a while in the first instance and more or less told Mick it was all over between them so she ended up living with Mick. In the end he had to get the police to remover her - she stole his money, his furniture, slept with other guys in his house when he wasn't there, did drugs....eventually there was a warrant out for her in the state of Arizona so she actually couldn't come back. That wasn't the issue with Jeff anyway, it was about singing, not what happened previously. Jeff and Mick talked and made up. I think they decided that they both had been screwed by her. We did the Poison tour but all through the tour, every night Jeff is saying when this is over he'll never set foot on stage with this band again. I asked why and he said he's bored with the music and he's pissed off with being the bass player in Dokken and he wanted something new. I think the honest truth is he thought Rock Star the movie was going to be a huge success - he was on location for four months. The record company gave him a solo deal, he was going to be in the movie a lot, on VH1, TV and CNN, record his solo record... it all made sense theoretically. He's 45 years old this was his big chance, but on the final editing of the movie they cut him out all over the place and he was only in for a minute or two. I kept calling him and asked him to do the record, and this is the truth, I asked him to come in, do the record, do the backing vocals, the three part harmony with Mick and I and we'd get somebody else to do the tour. He said he didn't want anything to do with it...nothing. We announced Barry Sparks as the new bass player and all of a sudden he says he's so shocked, they fired me, Dokken was my life and now I'm out. God's truth I must have called him fifty times and he didn't return one of my phone calls..not one! I assumed that meant he was out and we moved on, but he said no, I'm in the band, I want my 25% of Dokken but I don't want to tour or record...haha. But you have to work for the money, so really as far as I'm concerned he quit, but he's moaning on his web site that he got sacked. Anybody who knows me or Mick personally will tell you the same thing, what really happened and that's sometimes a problem, because people read something on a web site and they believe it automatically but we're happy that we did things right. I don't have any reason to lie but Mick told me afterwards Jeff was on countdown: six shows to go, five shows to go, four shows to go... so really he had his mind made up a long time prior to the tour even ending. He knew he was never going to set foot on a stage with Dokken again."

I wonder at times do people like Jeff actually appreciate what they have? I mean there must be thousands of people like me who would give their right leg just to play a few shows in Dokken

"That's where I was coming from. I mean I know he wasn't the star attraction, but he has a beautiful house, a good lifestyle, sold millions of records, toured the world for free and made millions of dollars... what's so hard about that? What more did he want? Only 1% of people in the world get to do this. Ego is a disease, I know he told me lots of time he didn't know why people liked my voice so much, that he was a much better singer. I asked him was it range , technically or because he had perfect pitch. Jeff has a degree in music, he plays five instruments and he didn't respect me as a musician because I didn't do that, I learned in the garage. I can't read music, it looks like chicken scratch to me but I know how to play guitar. Jeff thought because he spent four years in college he deserved to be famous. It doesn't work like that though. Cobain wasn't a brilliant musician but he had attitude and conviction - it's a magic created by a group of people coming together and creating something special, not if you're able to play f minor sharp diminished with perfect finger placement. I had to be careful though in replacing him. I said to Barry Sparks you've played with Micky Schenker, Uli Roth, Malmsteen.... why do you want to play with Dokken? It's pretty basic pumping out bass lines you'd be bored, but he said he loved the style of music and he wanted to be in the band 'Wanted to be in' ....that was the important bit"

So after Reb went John Norum came back in which wasn't a huge surprise to anybody given you had worked together previously

"We had asked John to do the 'Erase the Slate' record before Reb. The band wanted Reb and I wanted John, but John was in the middle of a record and wouldn't have been able to do Dokken for six months but we couldn't wait so we asked Reb. When we saw John last year he said turning down the offer was the worst thing he had ever done in his life and he regretted it. It may be fate. God, who knows if he'll be here this time next year? [Very fateful words - Ed]. He has a lot of offers, a solo record, a European tour, the Europe reunion has been offered to him right now. I said John, that's fine we'll do the European tour and if you can't do the American tour we'll get somebody else. I told him I loved him and he was a great player but if I put the word out I was looking for a new guitar player my phone would be ringing off the wall. He knows it. The problem with John is, he's a great guitarist but he hates touring. Being in Dokken is hardcore, 12-14 shows in sixteen days - that's rough going."

Dokken have been around for years and have garnered a reputation for being road dogs. Does it get easier or harder as you get older?

"Yeah we're road dogs. It's harder I guess. In the 80's we stayed in five star hotels..haha. The limo would pick me up, put a glass of wine in my hand and take me to the gig, or get a helicopter to pick my up on the hotel roof and drop me off behind the stage.We did Giants stadium on the Monsters of Rock, we checked and it would have taken two hours to get downtown in traffic so we called up a chopper to fly us there. I think it cost about $3000 which was pittance really. We were making a million dollars a month."

It 's very difficult for some of us to appreciate the vast amount of money you can make in the business?

"Well, if you make it ..wow...you can do what ever you want. I was poor all my life. After the 'Breaking the Chains' tour we all still had jobs. I used to fix up cars, I also had a little cloths store to make a little on the side. I even had three room mates to share just to pay the rent."

Twelve million records...you just can't sell that amount of records and not make money?

"Oh no, but we had nothing for three years. The money started to come in after three years of hard touring. We had two gold records and no money. The record company would tell us, yes you are selling records but you still owe us this amount for the recording costs. 'Under Lock and Key' - bang! A million copies in three weeks and then it went crazy, but we all lost millions of dollars too."

Have you all been sensible with your money?

"Yes, except Mick. He had a little trouble with the IRS. Next year when they ask you to pay your taxes just pay them. He's a little more frugal now but if you don't pay your taxes for seven years you could get in trouble. It's not about money any more, we don't need it we do it because we love it...nothing else."

'Long Way Home' is a departure from the 'traditional' Dokken sound. 'Sunless Days' and 'You' have a down-tuned mid 90's feel to them while 'Little Girl' has a sixties trippy vibe to it. 'I Found' has a David Gates singer/songwriter vibe while 'Magic Road' and 'Heartful of Soul' are more traditional fare

"That was the difference between John Norum and I. John wrote the riff to 'Sunless Days'...he likes the down-tuned Zakk Wylde type thing, and he also wrote the riff to 'You'. I wrote 'Little Girl' which has that Beatles and Zeppelin feel and 'I Found' and 'Goodbye My Friend' were never intended for this record. They were intended for my solo records but the band thought they should be included because they were good songs. That's why the album is a little eclectic. 'There was a Time' was also written for my solo album. John's not a Beatles fan - he's more into Lizzy and Mick and I are into the Beatles so I guess that's why things on this album are more 'different' than the norm."

The album is out, finally, after many delays. What has the reaction been like so far?

"Great. The only complaint has been it's too short. I had four more songs that I could have put on but I didn't think they were very good. 'Women and Children First' by Van Halen is a short record too but it's good. I must admit that the Japanese version is a lot better. After the album came out in America I went back in and wrote three more songs which are on the record. Barry was upset, he said the three extra tracks were better than some songs that made the original version of 'Long Way Home'. The Japenese version is a little rockier with the three extra songs: 'The Irish Song' is like 'Paris is Burning' gone to Ireland. I think everybody will enjoy that one, a big double bass song...really cool."

So what's next for Dokken?

"Well, I hope to put out a live DVD of a show with George from 1995 in Japan in a big arena with the full light show. It's the only fully professional shot show with all four original members out of the thousands of shows we did. George wasn't playing well on that tour but this one night he was on fire, he played great and it shows. I asked the record company about putting it out but we'll have to see. Other than that we're doing 55 shows with Ratt, Warrant, Firehouse [Loud screams and cheers from this interviewer!!] and LA Guns in big venues all throughout the USA this summer and hopefully back to Europe again late this year or early next. We took a risk coming over this time....it's been fourteen years and to be honest we didn't know what to expect. We knew we had a hardcore following but it had been soooo long. I said to Mick, well if only 50 people turn up we've had a great career, lets call it quits and stay home and play the stockmarket, in Europe at least. In America we are playing 10,000 seaters. We came here as an experiment to see if anybody cared."

Are you going home a happier man?

"Very happy. I have been wanting to do this for years but the problem was Jeff refused. About three years ago we had a really extensive tour booked through Helter Skelter, a premier booking agent . It was due to start ten days after the Poison tour and Jeff says he doesn't want to go. I said please but I don't control the band. People think because it's my name I call the shots, not so. Jeff voted no, I voted yes, and our manager at the time persuaded Mick not to go because there wasn't any money in it. I told Mick if he was in it for the money he may as well go home - it's not about that, it's about the rush of playing live. There are people in England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Italy, France that like our music, lets take it to them, but Jeff refused because he hates Europe. If you ask him he'll deny it, but I have no reason to lie, after all I'm here [in Europe]. George was the same, he hates the people, the cities, the weather, the food.... everything. Now we're back and we're coming back again..hopefully, and it certainly won't be fourteen years!"