When their debut album 'Glory To The Brave' first aired back in 1997, few people realised that they were witnessing the birth of a genuine phenomenon. Amazingly however, it shot out of the starting gate like a ballistic missile, quickly racking up sales which ran into tens of thousands of units worldwide, effectively silencing those who decried metal as a spent force. That band was Swedish power metal quintet HAMMERFALL, a band who have since gone on to become one of the prime drivers behind the remarkable revival of hard rock's fortunes. Currently mid way through their biggest, and most successful world tour to date, vocalist Joacim Cans took time out to talk with Dave Cockett about their latest, critically acclaimed masterpiece 'Crimson Thunder'

Wednesday, that must mean St Louis, the latest US city to get the HammerFall experience; given the rather punishing schedule (28 gigs in just 6 weeks), Joacim Cans seems remarkably composed.

"We flew out here about three weeks ago to hook up with Dio and Kings X," he explains, "and so far it's be great. We took this tour just so that we could force feed some metal to the Americans, and so far the crowd reactions have been fantastic. All the fans we had before are really pleased to see the band over here on tour, and I can tell from the post gig album sales that a lot of new people are getting turned on to our music. I've talked to a lot of the Dio fans after the gig and they seem really enthusiastic towards us and that's perfect, that's why we're here."

Although the opening slot on the Dio tour is undoubtedly their highest profile outing here, it's not the first time that HammerFall have visited the States.

"No, we did a tour out here back in 1998," Joacim confirms. "We came over with Death … and that was a really nice tour for us, but the death metal audience were a little more narrow minded. I think we were probably a little too melodic for them, either that or they thought there was too much posing going down on stage, ha, ha! But still, that tour did give us a foothold, and hopefully after this tour we'll be able to come back and do a small headlining tour by ourselves … that would be great. The audience has really changed it's attitude towards us. On the Death tour they were just standing there wondering what they hell was going on, but this time they really seem to be into the music. They're screaming, there's lots of hands in the air … they just seem to be a lot more devoted to the music. I thought they'd be a lot more like the Swede's, just standing at the back with that 'so impress me' look on their faces, but so far they've treated us really well."

With the European leg of the tour kicking off in mid January, followed by Australia, the Far East, and South America (not to mention numerous festival appearances), the lack of UK dates looks rather conspicuous.

"There's nothing planned at the moment," Joacim concedes. "We gave it a shot on the last tour playing in London, but … for some reason, this music doesn't really seem to work in the UK. I can't really explain why. I mean, this music was invented there … it's weird. In order for us to break even, or to make it financially viable for us to come over, we need more than just one show. We lost a lot of money doing the London show, but we went ahead because it was something that we felt we wanted to do. But this time around we had to make a decision that the shows had to at least break even, so that's more or less why we had to say no to a return to London. Maybe one day we might be able to hook up as support with a band like Dio, or another band doing a big UK tour .. that would be the best way for us to come back I think."

Moving on to new album 'Crimson Thunder', the style and sound is quite a radical shift away from last studio effort 'Renegade'.

"Yeah, I think that Michael Wagner's production was right for 'Renegade'," Joacim offers, "but it would never have fit in with 'Crimson Thunder' because the songs are much more mid tempo, it's much more of a raw sound. So in order to try and get the sound that we wanted we had to go to a different producer, and Charlie (Bauerfiend) was the man. In my opinion, Charlie is the best producer I've ever worked with, he's perfect for metal … he knows just how to get that big, fat guitar sound. And conversely, the production on 'Crimson Thunder' would never have worked with the 'Renegade' songs, it would've just sounded weird. Looking to the future of HammerFall, I really hope that we can work with Charlie again … at least on the next album, and the album after that too."

Reading between the lines would seem to imply that the Michael Wagner produced 'Renegade' was something of an experiment.

"Yeah, I suppose it was," agrees Joacim, "I think we just wanted to see what the band would sound like with a big ass producer from the 80's. There are different opinions about that album … some people say it's one of the best album's they've ever heard, some people say they can't stand the production. I think it's just a matter of taste really, I'm proud of that album … but looking back on it with hindsight after a couple of years, I think we could've worked a little more on the final mixes, especially on the drums. But at the time we genuinely felt it was the best thing we'd ever done, I think you have to, if you don't believe that then there's something seriously wrong. And you have to remember, that got us a gold album and took us to the number one spot in Sweden, so that's something we're really proud of. I think all the album's we've done have shown a progression, whether that's in the style or the production, there's always been something there. Now with the 'Crimson Thunder' album I think we've finally found our home."

Despite all the plaudits and critical acclaim, Joacim still finds it surprising at just how quickly things took off for the band.

"Yes I did," he readily admits. "When we first got signed back in '96, I was just happy to be able to record a heavy metal album because no one really believed that there'd ever be a revival of metal at that time. And you know, I thought we'd sell 5,000, maybe 10,000 copies if we were lucky, but then when all the reviews came in saying how fantastic it was and how it had opened the whole thing up again, I didn't really understand what they were talking about. I think that we maybe added some freshness to the genre, but it's not exactly the most well played album in history."

Success however does have it's price, expectation's adding more and more pressure with each subsequent album.

"Sure it gets harder with each album," Joacim concedes, "of course it does, but I think that you put that amount of pressure on yourself. I sit there and it's real hard to be objective sometimes. When I start with the vocal lines or the melodies, there are time when I think to myself 'Why am I doing this?' because I seem to be repeating myself over and over again. But then it's always good to have someone else in the band like Oscar (Dronjak, guitars) to bounce ideas off because I know if he says it sounds fine, then I can actually leave it where it is. But of course it's a lot of pressure … especially on this album where we got a number one in Sweden, we got the gold record, we were nominated for an award in Germany … then it's like 'Oh my god, where do we take it from here?!' So it's always good to go back to where you started from, just write the music that you love - let it flow, don't think about it to much."

As it transpires, the dust on the last world tour had barely settled before the band were looking towards the next album.

"The tour finished in August 2001," confirms Joacim, "so I guess we started to write the new songs in September or October that year. And it took a while, I mean, some of the songs we didn't even rehearse until we went into the studio - some of them I didn't even have the vocal melodies until the very day that I stood in front of the mic, ha, ha!"

Those familiar with the previous three HammerFall albums will no doubt notice that overall, the tempo of the songs on 'Crimson Thunder' is much less frantic.

"That wasn't really a deliberate move on our part," counters Joacim, "that's just the way things happened. On the first three albums, most of the songs were written by myself, Oscar, and Jesper Stromblad from In Flames, whereas this time Jesper's not involved anymore. So for Oscar and myself this album was proof positive that we could write the songs by ourselves - especially to the press who thought that HammerFall would be nothing without Jesper. And I think the songs, the Dronjak/Cans songs, that's much more what HammerFall is about - Jesper's influences were more the fast, melodic stuff. We never sat down and thought we must write more mid tempo songs, things just naturally went that way."

Like most songwriters, Joacim finds the more he writes, the harder it can be sometimes to come up with fresh inspiration.

"That can be a real tough one to work around," he admits. "I've seen a lot of good bands go down because they can't find the inspiration anymore. I think the best thing is to just let go and not think about it too much. I know that some people say 'Okay, I now need to sit down and write a couple of songs today', and they do just that, but I'm not sure that the quality is always good enough. You shouldn't ... if you're not in the right frame of mind for writing, you shouldn't really be there. I mean, I can wake up at three o'clock in the morning and think 'Okay, I have an idea' and then I have to work. I could be on holiday with my family - we could be visiting a Buddhist temple or something - but if I'm struck with an idea, I need to write it down somehow. It's the same with lyrics, I can sit for weeks trying to work out just one line of a song, then all of a sudden I'll hear just one word - maybe in a TV programme I'm watching or something - and then within ten minutes I can have the basic outline for the whole story. Sometimes the only thing you need is that one word."

Given that the bulk of the songs are Dronjak/Cans compositions, I wondered if their monopolising of the songwriting led to frictions within the band.

"I think the most important thing is that you preserve the original idea about HammerFall," says Joacim, "and even though the other guys come up with songs that sound good, they may not be right for the band. I think that's why Stefan (Elmgren) started doing his solo album - the songs on his album are really good, but they'd never fit on the 'Crimson Thunder' album. Of course, if someone comes up with a great song it would be stupid of us to refuse it just because it's not a Dronjak/Cans song. Stefan got one instrumental song on this album, let's see what happens on the next one."

Recording sessions for 'Crimson Thunder' started in May of last year with the final mixes taking place in late July.

"Actually, I tend to leave most of that stuff to Oscar and the producer," laughs Joacim. "As long as I … I try to explain to the producer what kind of vocals I want to have, you know … the backing vocals, what kind of harmonies, the kinds of delay and things I want … but if you use a producer and you pay him lots of money, you have to trust his judgement somehow. Otherwise it would be better to produce it yourself, but I don't want to do that; I just want to be a musician, not a producer, ha, ha!"

Working with Charlie Bauerfiend on 'Crimson Thunder' must've been quite a contrast to last time out where the band went all the way to Nashville to work with Michael Wagner.

"They're two very different personalities," Joacim affirms. "Michael is much more the easy going kind of guy, you know, 'Hey, that sounds great, keep it like that … let's go and have lunch', whereas Charlie's more strictly German if you know what I mean … we were almost marched into the studio, ha, ha! And he was much more 'Oh no, you can do it better, let's try one more time', which when you're just standing there can be very frustrating. It took me a couple of days to get to know him and his style, but when I finally grasped what he was trying to tell me, it just opened up a whole new door. On this album you can hear my vocals are much more powerful than they ever were before, and that's because he was kicking my ass all the time. Charlie is the type of guy who seems to bring out the best performance from everybody," Joacim adds, "and at the same time he's a really nice guy. I like it when the producer works with the band rather than working above the band trying to pull all the strings, because at the end of the day it's our music, our art. Their job is just to try and piece it all together. I don't like it when they say you should do this or you shouldn't do that because all of a sudden they're co-writing songs, and that's not the way it should be."

All credit to Bauerfiend as 'Crimson Thunder' seems to be an altogether more atmospheric and powerful album.

"That's certainly down to him pointing us in the right direction," Joacim agrees. "For the first time we were actually down tuning the guitars really low for some parts, just to add more depth and flavour to it. And that was actually down to Charlie; we had all the ingredients, but Charlie added the flavour, the spices … he spiced everything up. Vocally speaking, we worked a lot this time on trying to get it the way I wanted it to sound back in 1996, but didn't know how to. But then I explained to Charlie and he said 'Yeah, I know how to do that', and he knew exactly how I wanted it! Same thing with the harmonies, now instead of just one harmony we added a second, so sometimes you'll hear three part harmonies going on."

Like most musicians, Joacim has mixed emotions when it come to spending long periods of time in the studio.

"Sometimes it can be really tough," he admits, "especially being a vocalist. You need a couple of days off here and there, and it can get kind of boring sometimes. But during this recording we had the World Cup, so we didn't have a problem at all because we were up really early in the morning just to watch the games, ha, ha! Yes it can be a bit of a drag, but on the other hand it's only two months. You go in and do what you have to do knowing that you're gonna reap the benefits of everything later on - you know, you go on tour, do promotion, stuff like that."

Whilst most fans have taken 'Crimson Thunder' to their hearts, some have been less than enthusiastic.

"The responses we've had from a lot of them have been fantastic," says Joacim, "but some have said, 'Okay, I give up, I'm not gonna buy your albums anymore' … I don't really know what they're expecting. I think they're probably sitting there hoping that we'll sound like something else, but they have to put trust in the band that we'll do our level best to please them. First of all I think we have to please ourselves, because if we're not happy with the final result, I believe that the fans won't be happy either. Most people do seem to like it though, and the general feeling is that this is our most powerful one to date."

Always keen to be at the forefront of the scene, in May last year HammerFall launched their second, feature length DVD, 'The Templar Renegade Crusades'.

"There's everything you could want on there," enthuses Joacim. "It's two and a half hours long - everything from a full professional live show shot at Wacken with nine cameras, to backstage footage recorded on my own camcorder. And it's the videos for 'Renegade', the video for 'Always Will Be' … there's even some videos shot exclusively for this package. So you get everything, I mean this is really for the fans … by the fans, for the fans. The DVD market is exploding right now, and now we have a format that is great, you have to take advantage of it. And the new album is gonna be released as a DVD audio pretty soon, our first one, which is great. We released the DVD last May as a way of easing the hunger of the fans a little, but already they're demanding a new album! The new one has been out what, a month already, ha, ha!"

After four studio albums, the next logical step would seem to be a live package.

"We are actually thinking about that," affirms Joacim, "we're gonna record some of the shows on this upcoming tour and then see what happens … but there is a plan to release a live album after this. I can't promise whether it will be before or after the next studio album, but certainly you'll see a HammerFall live album in the non too distant future."

Already one of the biggest bands to emerge in the genre in years, there's a temptation to wonder where exactly HammerFall can go from here.

"There are still some territories unexplored," muses Joacim. "I mean, we do really well in Europe, and we do really well in South America, but now we're doing the US tour and it's back to basics again … playing on a really small stage, getting five minutes to soundcheck, but hey you know, this is rock 'n' roll. Hopefully we can gain some more attention now we're here and start building on that … it's really like building from scratch. Same thing when we get to Australia, that's gonna be exactly the same thing as here. But as to how far we can take it, I don't think I can answer that question," Joacim continues. "I don't think that we'd ever get to be as big as bands like Iron Maiden for example because they made it big when metal was new … and at that time all the major labels were supporting those bands. These days it's really tough because most of the mainstream media is against us, and that's a problem. Maybe it's a good thing because in the 80's metal killed itself, or the business killed metal - all of a sudden everything sounded like pop rock, there was no metal anymore, I don't know what happened. I think keeping it at this level, maybe taking it up a notch after each and every album … I'm satisfied with that. I'm still living my dream."

As a parting shot, at least HammerFall can make a fairly good living out of what they do.

"That's true," nods Joacim, "most bands these days don't have that luxury. On the other hand, on this tour right now we're losing quite a lot of money … but I think of HammerFall as a business now, as a company, sometimes you have to invest some money to see if it pays off in the end. It's a balancing thing, if we couldn't make enough for the band to live on then we wouldn't be able to tour so much because everybody would have to work."

And long may it continue.